Episode 81

When Stress Isn't Just Stress: An Academic's MS Journey with Catrina Mitchum

I sit down with Dr. Catrina Mitchum to hear about her journey through multiple sclerosis diagnosis while balancing academic demands, motherhood, and career transitions.

We explore the challenges of recognizing chronic illness symptoms when life is already demanding, how healthcare providers sometimes miss critical signs, and finding clarity through articulating our experiences. Catrina shares how she managed dissertation writing in 15-minute increments while dealing with early MS symptoms and what ultimately led to her leaving higher education.

Key discussion points include:

  • How chronic health conditions can be misattributed to stress or other common causes
  • Navigating diagnosis while teaching, parenting, and completing a PhD
  • The importance of finding community who understand your specific challenges
  • How to communicate limitations to family members when cognitive symptoms arise
  • Transitioning from academia to entrepreneurship with purpose

For those managing chronic illness, working in higher education, or navigating significant career transitions, this conversation offers validation and practical insights for creating systems that work when traditional support structures aren't available.

Resources Mentioned:

Links

Joyful Support Movement

Lacey's Instagram

Lacey's TikTok

JSM Instagram

Joyful Support Movement Podcasts

Mentioned in this episode:

Buoy Hydration

Cubtail

Cubtale

Transcript
Lacey:

Welcome to sharing the Middle.

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Where we share the stories of the

mess, the middles of our life.

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I am Lacey today is, episode we

talked to Katrina Mitchum, Dr.

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Katrina MidAm, about

her experience with Ms.

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Higher education.

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, You get to hear me nerd out a

little bit and yeah, Katrina is

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one of my people because higher

education is in my career background.

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Same with learning design

and course creation.

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So it's so nice to talk to somebody

who I'm so much in common with,

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I just really appreciate her.

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Candidness, willingness to share

as usual, and that we can laugh

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about some really dark things.

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let's jump right in to our conversation.

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welcome Dr.

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Katrina Mitchum.

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I'm so excited to talk to you

today because you probably don't

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know, but you are one of my people.

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, And we'll talk more about that, , but

why don't you take a moment and

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introduce yourself to our listeners.

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Dr. Catrina Mitchum:

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Yeah.

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I always struggle with

what part myself, right?

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Lacey: Yeah.

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I like a little bit overview,

blend, professional, personal.

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Yeah.

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Dr. Catrina Mitchum:

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wife, mom, but also recovering academic

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Lacey: Yeah.

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Dr. Catrina Mitchum:

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business owner and using all of those

things to put good shit in the world.

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Lacey: Mm-hmm.

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Dr. Catrina Mitchum:

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the best summary.

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Lacey: Tell me about recovering academics.

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my background is in

higher education as well.

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I was on the staff side ' cause I

never wanted to get a PhD because

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I didn't wanna do research.

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So, I am, I'm assuming with the

doctor, that means you probably

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were on the faculty side.

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Dr. Catrina Mitchum:

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Yes.

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but also admin.

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Lacey: Yeah.

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Dr. Catrina Mitchum:

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some of my favorite people are on the

staff side, so makes a lot of sense.

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why we get along.

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Lacey: Very loving people

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Dr. Catrina Mitchum:

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They have

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Lacey: mm-hmm.

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Dr. Catrina Mitchum:

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to be able to deal with

a lot of the faculty,

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Lacey: It is a very unique environment

that I don't think people who are not in

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higher education can truly understand.

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But what was your area of interest?

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what did you teach, what were you

excited about, that kind of stuff?

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Dr. Catrina Mitchum:

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So I got my Master's degree in

professional and technical writing

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'cause that's what I was gonna do.

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And then I took a class on the

teaching of writing and I was like,

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I never ever wanted to be a teacher.

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But I actually like this.

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And it

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Lacey: Mm-hmm.

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Dr. Catrina Mitchum:

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because you had, if you taught at

certain places, you could access a

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population that has been underserved.

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And so my first 10, 12 years of

teaching where at a community college.

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So the people who, for one reason

or another went back to school or

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didn't have access to a four year

institution at 18, and so went to

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a community college to get started.

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They wanted to freaking be there.

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and so I got into teaching writing

because I wanted to break down

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barriers to that writing class is

considered a gatekeeping class.

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Lacey: yeah, absolutely.

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Dr. Catrina Mitchum:

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people out that don't belong.

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Lacey: Well, and it also is, I know

at least where I was, it's one of

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very few total general educations.

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Everybody has to take

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Dr. Catrina Mitchum:

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Yep.

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Lacey: English 1, 1 0 1, 1001, whatever.

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that's one of the only classes that you

can make every single department take.

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Dr. Catrina Mitchum:

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Yep.

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Lacey: I.

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Dr. Catrina Mitchum:

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And so I wanted to be the person that

helped people that needed it the most

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and didn't keep them from doing the

other things just because they don't

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know how to use a fricking comma.

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You better believe they knew how to use

the Oxford comma they left my class.

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Lacey: Mm-hmm.

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Dr. Catrina Mitchum:

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struggle with that, I always tell

people I am the worst speller with

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a PhD in English that you will

ever meet in your entire life.

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That's my Achilles heel.

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I started teaching, I was teaching in a

community college before I even finished

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my master's because you could teach,

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Lacey: With 18 credit hours of,

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Dr. Catrina Mitchum:

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level.

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Lacey: yeah.

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Dr. Catrina Mitchum:

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I hate the word basic writing,

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Lacey: Mm-hmm.

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Dr. Catrina Mitchum:

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people know what that means.

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you could teach that with a

certain number of credit hours.

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And so I went to such a cool institution

that they let me make that an internship.

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Lacey: That is really cool.

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Dr. Catrina Mitchum:

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Yeah.

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So I got like the whole gamut of

being observed and sitting down with

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a faculty member and was, it was a

really cool experience and I'm really

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glad that I got to do that because.

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I did actually really like it.

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Lacey: Yeah.

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Dr. Catrina Mitchum:

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but my spouse was in the Coast Guard.

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He just retired.

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And so we moved every two to three years.

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I taught my first online class

in:

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from 2010 all the way through.

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Lacey: Interesting.

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Dr. Catrina Mitchum:

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is in rhetoric writing

and digital studies,

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Lacey: Yeah.

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Dr. Catrina Mitchum:

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Then I did admin and then I laughed.

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Lacey: I will say, it.

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Higher Ed.

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I haven't been in higher ed

since It's been four years.

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and from what I've observed from

the outside in those four years, it

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has been an insane amount of change.

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Like it's a very different place to

work than it was when I was there.

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from.

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political changes funding changes,

all those different things.

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Like it's almost like a

180 in how things run.

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Dr. Catrina Mitchum:

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Yeah.

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Now I do still adjunct

because I can't help myself.

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and where I adjunct, I get to say no.

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Lacey: Hey,

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Dr. Catrina Mitchum:

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It's

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Lacey: yeah.

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Dr. Catrina Mitchum:

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like adjuncting and hustling

to teach 11 classes at once.

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Lacey: a part-time salary.

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Dr. Catrina Mitchum:

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and I do faculty coaching for

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Lacey: Okay.

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That's good.

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So, before we jump into more, I do like

to take a pause and ask people what

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they think of when they hear the middle.

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some people have a strong reaction.

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I have a strong reaction.

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And so my solution was to make a

whole podcast about it, which is

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about a about as crazy as you can be.

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But do you have a strong feeling

or what comes to your mind?

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Dr. Catrina Mitchum:

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The first thing that comes to mind

for me is actually, it's everything.

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Like

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Lacey: Yeah.

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Dr. Catrina Mitchum:

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it's the middle between

being born and being dead.

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that's where we are.

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we are in the middle at all times.

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Lacey: And how do you feel about that?

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Dr. Catrina Mitchum:

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sometimes it's messy

and sometimes it's not.

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Lacey: Mm-hmm.

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Dr. Catrina Mitchum:

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I feel good about it.

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Like

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Lacey: Okay.

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Dr. Catrina Mitchum:

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I'm glad I'm not at one end or the

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Lacey: That's true.

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I guess if you're looking at it

on such a grand scale, there's

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nowhere else I'd rather be,

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Dr. Catrina Mitchum:

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Nope.

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Lacey: although I did just have a baby and

I gotta be honest, if I could just nap all

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the day in a warm waterbed, I mean, that's

essentially what you are as a fetus.

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Dr. Catrina Mitchum:

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That's true.

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Lacey: So, I

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Dr. Catrina Mitchum:

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true.

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Lacey: But yeah, so you've

got kind of that macro view.

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I do think it's interesting too, now

that we're talking about it, and I'm

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thinking back to like my writing courses

and that kind of stuff, the middle

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of like some of academic papers and

all that kind of stuff is the stuff

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people don't read that when it comes

to a lot of like writing in academia.

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People tend to skip the middle, right?

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Like is you read the abstract,

then you read the results

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and you move along, and so

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Dr. Catrina Mitchum:

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Yeah.

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Lacey: I'm like, woo.

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Dr. Catrina Mitchum:

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I'm gonna jump off of that because

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Lacey: Yeah.

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Dr. Catrina Mitchum:

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the best stuff is in the middle.

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Lacey: Yeah.

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Dr. Catrina Mitchum:

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that's where you, what about this

and what about those methods?

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But, did that really, can

I see your data because,

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Lacey: Well, it can

change the entire meaning.

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Dr. Catrina Mitchum:

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Exactly.

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Lacey: Mm-hmm.

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Dr. Catrina Mitchum:

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the quotes And

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Lacey: Yeah.

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Dr. Catrina Mitchum:

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to me, the middle is always

the juiciest, perhaps best

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part, no matter how ugly it is.

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Lacey: Well, I usually invite

people to share one particular messy

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middle for us to kind of use as

an overarch arching conversation.

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What, story would you

like to share with us?

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Dr. Catrina Mitchum:

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I thought about this because

there are so many messy in my life

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gonna share my diagnosis story because

I was also finishing my PhD and still

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teaching part-time, and I had two

babies at home and a husband on a

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boat, and so that was probably one

of the messiest points in my life.

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Lacey: I wanna pause real,

real quick right there.

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if people don't know, getting your PhD is

essentially being told, Hey, write a book.

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We don't really have stuff.

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To tell you what to do, but we'll tell

you what you do wrong and we'll check

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in every once in a while about it.

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Right.

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Okay.

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good luck.

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Have fun.

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And then, so that's that

part, teaching part-time.

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And so I'm, if I had guess, you

were teaching what, like nine credit

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hours, three courses at least?

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Dr. Catrina Mitchum:

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Yeah.

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Lacey: Yeah.

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So three different

classes of, of teaching.

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Two children, which is two

full-time jobs right there.

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And not having support because your,

your husband was away on a boat.

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I just wanted us to take a moment

to ground how much stuff you

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just said so quickly because

I, I never, I remember going.

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In, in my first semester of grad

school, I went to one of my professors

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and essentially was like, well,

I'll be happy in 10 years when I

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have tenure and I have my PhD and

I'm settled and that kind of stuff.

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In the meantime, you know, I'll

just deal with having to do this.

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And my professor looked at

me and she said, I think you

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should plan to be happy now.

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Dr. Catrina Mitchum:

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Fantastic advice.

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Lacey: You know, she was on her way out.

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And so I think she had a much clearer

view than those who were real deep

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in the research part of things.

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that's when I realized, oh, I

don't wanna do research because it

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is, so I didn't wanna get a PhD.

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I like to dabble too much to just

focus in on one topic for so long, I

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feel in my bones how much work that

would be and how I don't want that.

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So I admire you for doing it.

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Dr. Catrina Mitchum:

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it was one of those I didn't

realize how messy it had gotten.

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And I think that sometimes when things

are the messiest, at least for me, I've

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done better with the messy when I started

paying attention to it, getting messy.

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and that was literally almost as

messy as I could potentially get.

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Lacey: Every single area of your

life, like there is no path.

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Dr. Catrina Mitchum:

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And my parents were on, were

halfway across the country, so it

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was literally just me, my second

symptom, the symptom that made them

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think, Ooh, should probably do an MR.

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I was optic neuritis, and so I woke up one

morning with a blind spot in my right eye.

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Nobody home, just me and the kids.

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we, fortunately were going

to, kid meetups, right?

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'cause they weren't in

preschool or anything yet.

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And I called one of the moms and I

was like, so I'm pretty sure I need

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to get my butt to an eye doctor.

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Could you sit with the kids

for an hour and a half?

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That wasn't even when I got diagnosed.

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I don't know if I've ever told

you that I had, my thing is MS,

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Lacey: Oh, okay.

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Dr. Catrina Mitchum:

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you have to have like different

things happen over time.

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And then I was breastfeeding, so we

didn't do an MRI till a year later.

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Lacey: Can I pause and have you,

what was your first symptom?

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Dr. Catrina Mitchum:

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it was an itch that I couldn't scratch

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Lacey: Yeah.

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Dr. Catrina Mitchum:

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Nonstop.

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Like it was, probably 10 days.

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I thought I was going to go insane.

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and then it gradually became

like numbness on my one side.

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and then my hand has some, still has some

loss of sensation, that kind of thing.

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it didn't go away.

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the numbness is still there, but

the itch went away and it stopped.

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And I was like, oh, that was weird.

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And if I hadn't been like with all of

these other things, I would like to think

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I, would've paid closer attention to that.

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my primary thought, 'cause I

lived in Minnesota, so it was icy.

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I had a 15 pound three month

old with an arm in the carrier.

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Lacey: yeah.

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Dr. Catrina Mitchum:

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Jerked something when

I slipped on the ice.

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And so we all, everybody thought

it was orthopedic, which wasn't.

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but yeah, I would hope looking back,

I would've pushed a little more.

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And it's sad that we have to do that,

that like people just try to chalk

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it up to something that they know.

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even though the numbness in my hand,

that's a weird symptom for shoulder

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injury, but that's why like sharing

this I think is important because paying

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attention to when things are getting

messy can help I think in the long run.

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Lacey: Yeah, no, I totally agree.

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for me, I just attributed

everything to anxiety, right?

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Because that's what society tells

us is all this stuff's in our head.

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And I

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Dr. Catrina Mitchum:

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Yeah.

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Lacey: remember talking, with my

boss or coworker at the time, and

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I'm like, I've had anxiety For a

long time, but it's so physical.

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I've never had this before and I had a

panic attack once when we were at an event

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and looking back now, I'm like, oh, that

was sensory overload because of my me

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CFS, that now I can recognize that, at

the time I just thought it was anxiety

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and so it's so easy to self-diagnose.

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It's so easy to minimize

and so, yeah, no, I totally.

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As you said, I would like to think.

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I'm like, no, I would've

thought the same thing.

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Dr. Catrina Mitchum:

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to be fair, in 2022 I had a relapse and

didn't realize that I was having a relapse

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Part of the reason why I left, right?

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So I had stepped into a director position.

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I'd done that during the pandemic 'cause

I was one of two people that, really

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knew online teaching and learning.

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And so a lot of faculty, a lot

of students, I was working a

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ridiculous number of hours.

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and so 2022, my supervisor

went on sabbatical and it

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was a really rough semester.

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And upper administration was

throwing all of these new

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programs they wanted developed.

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And I was losing words, like common words.

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And for someone that lives and breathes

words, that should have been a clue.

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But everybody said it's just stress.

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Lacey: Yep.

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Dr. Catrina Mitchum:

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you're under a lot of stress.

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Lacey: Can I ask losing words?

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So, one of the things that I tried

to do is to describe to my husband

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with my brain fog what I tell him.

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I was like, I need you to imagine that

your brain has become a cotton bowl.

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And you can see shadows and stuff places,

and you know what you need on the other

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side, but you've gotta get through all

of that stuff and it just feels so full.

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That's what it feels like

for me when I have brain fog.

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So when you say you lost words,

how would you describe that?

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Dr. Catrina Mitchum:

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not that way,

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Lacey: Yeah,

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Dr. Catrina Mitchum:

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get that way,

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Lacey: yeah.

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Dr. Catrina Mitchum:

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When I've lost a word, it's more

like I'm flipping through the files.

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And the file's fucking missing, Lacey.

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it's not there.

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It's not where I last put that file.

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Lacey: So it's not like a foggy thing that

you're like, I know something's there.

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Dr. Catrina Mitchum:

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yeah,

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Lacey: an empty spot.

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Dr. Catrina Mitchum:

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there is a word for this and it's

not this word because that word is

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there and it's not that word because

that word is there, but it's like

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something in between those words.

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But it's the perfect word for this.

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And it wasn't even like

highly academic words.

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It was words like door.

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Like simple things that, you don't lose

the word door when you learned it in

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your first three, four years of life.

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Lacey: I couldn't think of the

word for Sawhorse earlier today.

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'cause we went and bought a saw.

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It's a whole thing.

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And my husband, I said, you

know, the things that you put

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up, they put something on top.

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And he looked at me and he said, go on.

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And I was like, no, no, no.

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I'm, I don't remember the word.

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And I don't feel guilty about

not remembering Sawhorse.

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I would, if I couldn't remember

door, I would be concerned.

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Yeah.

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Dr. Catrina Mitchum:

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Yeah.

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and I brought it up to my neurologist

and they said they thought it was

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stress, even though I had also

fallen in that same semester.

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and so mobility, things like

walking, I've got foot drop.

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so sometimes walking I

just oh, it just happens.

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but that was the first time I'd fallen.

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and so I went on FMLA did part-time

I had my scans that following

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December we found new lesions.

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And so all of those things that I had

been told were stress, wasn't just

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stress, it was an active relapse and

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Lacey: The experts do.

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Dr. Catrina Mitchum:

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that's the thing.

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and really, are not experts in ms.

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And that is part of the problem.

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Honestly, I, we just moved in March

and am now for the first time since

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I was diagnosed in 2016 at a place

where I have an MS specialist.

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And she's telling me all these

things like, did you ever get a well,

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did you ever have you ever seen?

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And I'm like, I didn't

know that was a thing.

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it just goes to show I think that

while, like I would hope that I

414

:

would see what the messy middle is.

415

:

Sometimes you don't know what the

mess is, until you're through it.

416

:

other people are telling

you what they think it is.

417

:

Lacey: Well, I wanna go back a little

bit to, we're thinking about your, first.

418

:

Instance, not, the flare

we were talking about.

419

:

So you have all these different things

going on, and things are very messy.

420

:

Did you know, like, did you feel

like it was messy or were you just

421

:

in such survival mode that it was.

422

:

I guess what I'm asking is when

did you realize it was messy?

423

:

Was it when you went to

the eye doctor that time?

424

:

Was there any other places

that you recognized the mess?

425

:

Dr. Catrina Mitchum:

426

:

It was definitely after the fact.

427

:

I did not realize how messy it was until

I think the first time I said all of those

428

:

things out loud together in a sentence.

429

:

Like hearing it, hearing is what made

me realize, oh shit, that was a lot.

430

:

I was just, in survival mode.

431

:

I was just taking things literally one

day, sometimes 15 minutes at a time.

432

:

That's how I got through my dissertation.

433

:

I wrote my dissertation in 15 minutes

a day, and I just created systems.

434

:

To support me in ways that I

didn't have people to support me.

435

:

Lacey: What was the topic

of your dissertation?

436

:

Dr. Catrina Mitchum:

437

:

it was retention in

online writing classes.

438

:

Lacey: Okay.

439

:

Okay.

440

:

Dr. Catrina Mitchum:

441

:

Which probably explains to you

a lot of why I do what I do now.

442

:

Lacey: Yeah.

443

:

Now, now I'm like, well, tell me

of your methodology, like what

444

:

this is where like, I love the concept

of academia and dipping my toe in

445

:

it, but I don't wanna live there.

446

:

Dr. Catrina Mitchum:

447

:

I love the research part and so like

doing market research in business,

448

:

I'm like, Ooh, yes, I do love it.

449

:

I love a good spreadsheet.

450

:

I tend to be a mixed methods gal

myself because numbers can lie.

451

:

Lacey: And they only tell so much.

452

:

Dr. Catrina Mitchum:

453

:

Some of the best to learn about

people is through the ways

454

:

they talk about themselves

455

:

Lacey: Mm-hmm.

456

:

Dr. Catrina Mitchum:

457

:

they're doing.

458

:

Lacey: Mm-hmm.

459

:

Dr. Catrina Mitchum:

460

:

and so trying to find the

themes and patterns in those

461

:

things is a lot of fun to me.

462

:

And then

463

:

Lacey: Yeah.

464

:

Dr. Catrina Mitchum:

465

:

back that up with numbers,

that's good stuff.

466

:

Lacey: Thank you for indulging

my, I have two master's degrees.

467

:

I have one in communication and one in

instructional design and technology.

468

:

They're about six years apart.

469

:

And so we're getting to the

place where I was, where I'm

470

:

like, I need to learn something.

471

:

And so I'm starting to realize

now tell me, like, tell me your

472

:

method starting to bubble up again.

473

:

I do not need a third master's degree.

474

:

I do not.

475

:

Dr. Catrina Mitchum:

476

:

No, you not.

477

:

Lacey: but I will say I

had tuition remission.

478

:

That's part of the reason why

I got a second master's degree.

479

:

It's a very beautiful thing.

480

:

Anyway, One of the things that,

this podcast is built around is

481

:

the idea that by sharing your

story, you make a lot of meaning.

482

:

And that like you, by just articulating a

story, you make meaning within yourself.

483

:

And then by sharing your story, other

people can make meaning of theirs

484

:

and all these different things.

485

:

So, Glad to hear that

that worked for you and.

486

:

Dr. Catrina Mitchum:

487

:

I am proof that Lacey's.

488

:

Lacey: I would love to hear

more about your diagnosis.

489

:

I have a lot of strong feelings about

getting a diagnosis and what that

490

:

actually means But I think I have such

a more nebulous condition, whereas

491

:

I feel like MS is a much more like.

492

:

This is what's happening.

493

:

We know things

494

:

I feel like we've also seen a lot about

MS in, culture recently with, Christina

495

:

Applegate and, and some Blair, So

I would love to hear your diagnosis

496

:

story and how you felt about that.

497

:

Dr. Catrina Mitchum:

498

:

I feel like I got lucky.

499

:

I had someone that just looked at the

timing of my symptoms because separation.

500

:

Is one of the key pieces, right?

501

:

'cause there are other things

that can mimic lesions and all.

502

:

and so while like the time between my

symptoms and the MRI was a long period

503

:

of time, I think in retrospect that was

probably good because there was time

504

:

between each start of new stuff and then.

505

:

Lacey: Yeah.

506

:

Dr. Catrina Mitchum:

507

:

It all showed up in an MRI and so in

some way it, I didn't have to keep

508

:

going back to the doctor every time

something was happening, because

509

:

we were just waiting to do the MRI.

510

:

So it took some of that stress out,

511

:

Lacey: Mm-hmm.

512

:

Dr. Catrina Mitchum:

513

:

Hindsight is always 2020, and I

definitely had symptoms when I was

514

:

pregnant with my first, different

things that I've mentioned.

515

:

Were happening.

516

:

Like I had eye pain every time

I moved my eye, and that is a

517

:

first symptom of optic neuritis.

518

:

I was just living in a different place.

519

:

So with my second, we were in Minnesota,

I had a vitamin D deficiency with

520

:

my first, I lived in Hawaii and I

probably had too much vitamin D.

521

:

and, those kinds of things can

make all the difference in how

522

:

your body responds to situations,

523

:

Lacey: Also pregnancy is the

wild, wild west of medical things.

524

:

No one knows it.

525

:

Dr. Catrina Mitchum:

526

:

absolutely.

527

:

Lacey: You could say anything and they'd

be like, yeah, that's probably pregnancy.

528

:

Thanks.

529

:

Dr. Catrina Mitchum:

530

:

of the symptoms was, so there's

this thing where if you bend your

531

:

neck forward, you get like a zing

down your spine and into your feet.

532

:

I had that they were like, oh, you're

eight and a half months pregnant and the

533

:

baby's probably sitting on something.

534

:

I'd never been pregnant before.

535

:

I had no idea.

536

:

so yeah, hindsight is definitely 2020,

but I didn't know to be worried it then,

537

:

first time 'cause things went away,

like I didn't get zinging anymore and.

538

:

All that kind of stuff, so

539

:

Lacey: You keep track with

because it sounds like so many

540

:

different one off things, right?

541

:

like, did you answer a questionnaire?

542

:

Like, I just feel like some of these

things are so, you know, in different

543

:

ways that it's hard to recognize 'cause

you're just a person living your life.

544

:

Dr. Catrina Mitchum:

545

:

Yeah.

546

:

So I think that if optic neuritis

hadn't been one of my symptoms, my

547

:

diagnosis would've taken longer.

548

:

honestly, because the

ophthalmologist was like, have

549

:

you ever been diagnosed with ms?

550

:

And I was like, no.

551

:

Why?

552

:

so that was the trigger

symptom because it is.

553

:

common.

554

:

And that's the thing with MS.

555

:

no two people have the same symptoms.

556

:

no two people have the same

experience, but optic neuritis is

557

:

usually of the few telltale signs.

558

:

so in some ways it was the symptom that

made it an easier diagnosis process.

559

:

I didn't have to fight anybody

which I have heard horror stories.

560

:

I also have celiac.

561

:

And it was another

situation where got lucky.

562

:

So my, I went with stomach pain and

my primary thought I was being beat

563

:

at home and sent me for x-rays to

make sure I didn't have a broken rib.

564

:

so there were several tests that

they sent me for before they

565

:

sent me to a gastroenterologist.

566

:

I happened to have a gastroenterologist

that still kept up on the research.

567

:

This was back in 2006,

568

:

Lacey: Been very new.

569

:

Dr. Catrina Mitchum:

570

:

was

571

:

Lacey: I,

572

:

Dr. Catrina Mitchum:

573

:

wasn't a fad yet to go

574

:

Lacey: yeah.

575

:

Dr. Catrina Mitchum:

576

:

Like it wasn't a diet

thing, hadn't heard of it.

577

:

My insurance company denied seeing a

nutritionist because it was that weird be

578

:

diagnosed with Celiac back then in the us.

579

:

I got lucky that

580

:

Lacey: Yeah.

581

:

Dr. Catrina Mitchum:

582

:

kept up.

583

:

Lacey: Yeah.

584

:

Do you feel like your

diagnoses led you to solutions?

585

:

Dr. Catrina Mitchum:

586

:

gluten-free is just

587

:

Lacey: Yeah.

588

:

Dr. Catrina Mitchum:

589

:

I don't have to take a pill for that.

590

:

There's no physical therapy.

591

:

It's just don't eat out.

592

:

I went on disease modifying

treatments, right?

593

:

that's what they do for ms.

594

:

Should they have put me

on physical therapy then?

595

:

Probably, 'cause the sooner you can

get those things, functioning as

596

:

well as they can, I feel like the

better off when you do have relapses.

597

:

I'm hoping with this new move and

this new neurologist there are,

598

:

like, I didn't even know that

neurophysical therapy was a thing.

599

:

Lacey: Sounds futuristic to me.

600

:

Dr. Catrina Mitchum:

601

:

that speech therapy, neuro speech

therapy, could help with my words.

602

:

So sometimes it's forgetting

words, but if I, so when I get

603

:

hot, I'm like a drunk person.

604

:

I slur, I fall, I get confused.

605

:

I don't know where I am.

606

:

And this new neurologist told me that

a neuro speech therapist could actually

607

:

help with the finding of the words and

the not slurring when I get overheated.

608

:

Who knew?

609

:

Apparently the people

that do the research know.

610

:

Lacey: Yeah.

611

:

So looking back, so we kind

of talked about the beginning

612

:

of the mess in the middle.

613

:

Do you have a point that you're like,

oh, because I know we talked about

614

:

everything's the middle, but was the,

when we're thinking about this particular

615

:

experience, was there an end point?

616

:

Was it graduation or, your

partner coming back home?

617

:

what, do you have an end for it?

618

:

Dr. Catrina Mitchum:

619

:

probably when I left higher ed,

620

:

Lacey: Okay.

621

:

Dr. Catrina Mitchum:

622

:

I'm not gonna lie, that's

probably when it ended.

623

:

because I think you know a lot of it

Stress was not the cause of my issues

624

:

sometimes, like the messiness right,

is actually the feeling of stress.

625

:

That's why it feels messy.

626

:

Lacey: Yeah.

627

:

Dr. Catrina Mitchum:

628

:

and so I really didn't have a reduction of

that until, unfortunately, until I left.

629

:

doing great now.

630

:

Lacey: Sorry.

631

:

That's funny.

632

:

well, I will say, I can relate to

what you were saying one of the

633

:

things that has taken me a long time

to internally understand, but also

634

:

to articulate to other people is.

635

:

The stress is not the cause, but

the stress can exacerbate the

636

:

environment to make the cause.

637

:

Enact.

638

:

You know what I mean?

639

:

And so yes, One of the biggest changes in

my life is I had to stop working in the

640

:

same way and I've had to monitor my stress

and that has made the huge difference.

641

:

But the stress wasn't the cause.

642

:

It just was a platform for it to occur.

643

:

And people have a really

hard time understanding that.

644

:

Dr. Catrina Mitchum:

645

:

Yeah.

646

:

No, but that is a perfect

way to describe it.

647

:

Lacey: Yeah.

648

:

Dr. Catrina Mitchum:

649

:

it's almost like a trigger,

650

:

Lacey: Yes.

651

:

Dr. Catrina Mitchum:

652

:

opposed to being the cause.

653

:

It's a catalyst.

654

:

Lacey: Is there anything else you would

wanna say, like about your middle,

655

:

about your experience or anything like

that before we move on to your advice?

656

:

Dr. Catrina Mitchum:

657

:

No, I think that's really the.

658

:

That's the, that was the messy part.

659

:

That was the, there's probably

more details that I don't remember

660

:

because I've got lesions on my brain.

661

:

Lacey: I also love that people with

chronic illness can have such a dark

662

:

sense of humor, but I love it so much.

663

:

Dr. Catrina Mitchum:

664

:

My advice.

665

:

Lacey: There we go.

666

:

Dr. Catrina Mitchum:

667

:

if I didn't laugh through these

things, I would be a ball of tears

668

:

in the corner like the baby, right?

669

:

Like I would wanna be at the beginning

It's a lot like if you really sit down

670

:

and think about what the hell is going

on in your body and what your trajectory

671

:

could be, I don't wanna think about that.

672

:

So that

673

:

Lacey: Hmm.

674

:

Dr. Catrina Mitchum:

675

:

me more mindful of where I am and how

much I like to laugh and joke around,

676

:

a little dark because if I'm not

laughing at it, it will laugh at me.

677

:

that's how I feel.

678

:

and just making sure that

you find support, and that's

679

:

something I didn't get.

680

:

Early enough in my diagnosis, so like

when I moved from Minnesota, I did

681

:

eventually have like people around me,

but none of them had experience with ms.

682

:

None of them, like I couldn't say

the medication that I was on and have

683

:

them be like, oh yeah, I was on that.

684

:

How are you dealing with this side effect?

685

:

Lacey: Yeah.

686

:

Dr. Catrina Mitchum:

687

:

you even have that side effect?

688

:

Lacey: Yeah.

689

:

Dr. Catrina Mitchum:

690

:

that where you don't have to say much

for another person to completely and

691

:

totally understand your situation.

692

:

Lacey, you and I have said about

higher ed because we were in it,

693

:

Lacey: Yeah.

694

:

Dr. Catrina Mitchum:

695

:

listening

696

:

Lacey: Yeah.

697

:

Dr. Catrina Mitchum:

698

:

not really get.

699

:

Lacey: Yeah.

700

:

Dr. Catrina Mitchum:

701

:

and so making sure no matter what

your messy middle is, the people

702

:

that you can talk to, that you can

say it in less words and they just

703

:

immediately grok what it is you're

feeling, what it is you're dealing with.

704

:

because that has been, that

was a game changer for me.

705

:

Lacey: Yeah.

706

:

And sometimes, One of the ways

that I see that in my world, I

707

:

should say, is, I pass out a lot.

708

:

It's just a thing that happens.

709

:

We've figured out it in life, but it's

a joke, a thing we joke about, and

710

:

it's also a thing we don't worry about.

711

:

So like I passed out

while I was giving birth.

712

:

I was getting a C-section

and I passed out during it.

713

:

And the anesthesiologist is freaking

out, and my husband's like, oh, no, no.

714

:

This is a normal one.

715

:

You're fine.

716

:

Just keep going.

717

:

And it's just one those things.

718

:

Like, if you can bring

her back, she'll be fine.

719

:

This is our normal state.

720

:

If anybody outside of that context didn't

know that, he would seem very uncaring.

721

:

And so just having people to

understand that context, to be able to

722

:

Dr. Catrina Mitchum:

723

:

Yeah.

724

:

Lacey: get the humor

and that kind of stuff.

725

:

Yeah, I, I cannot stress

enough how important that is.

726

:

Dr. Catrina Mitchum:

727

:

And sometimes when you

can't laugh at it, right?

728

:

so for me, when I get overheated

and I can't even string sentences,

729

:

like I can't string words together

'cause I can't, find enough of them.

730

:

I can just say words.

731

:

And my husband and my

kids know what that means.

732

:

They need to just stop asking me

questions because I'm gonna get

733

:

to the point where I don't even

understand your questions if you keep

734

:

Lacey: Yeah.

735

:

Dr. Catrina Mitchum:

736

:

this way.

737

:

Lacey: your kids?

738

:

Dr. Catrina Mitchum:

739

:

their 10 and 12?

740

:

Lacey: Okay.

741

:

My kids are, are six and

four in like six months.

742

:

but they don't get, the mommy needs you

to stop talking to me right now so I,

743

:

Dr. Catrina Mitchum:

744

:

Yeah.

745

:

Lacey: to know that that's coming

746

:

Dr. Catrina Mitchum:

747

:

It

748

:

Lacey: It doesn't mean

that I don't love you.

749

:

It doesn't mean that I don't wanna

hear what you're saying, but I do

750

:

not, I can't engage with you the

way that I know we both want to.

751

:

Dr. Catrina Mitchum:

752

:

Yeah.

753

:

and that's a whole other

conversation, right?

754

:

Lacey: Yeah.

755

:

Dr. Catrina Mitchum:

756

:

things in a way that doesn't scare them.

757

:

How do you do that?

758

:

You do it very carefully,

giving as minimal amount of

759

:

information as humanly possible.

760

:

but yeah, that would be a

whole other episode, Lacey.

761

:

Lacey: Well, tell people about

what you're doing now and how they

762

:

can find you and all that stuff.

763

:

Dr. Catrina Mitchum:

764

:

Yeah, so I took all that stuff

we talked about earlier and

765

:

I just switched industries.

766

:

now I help small businesses create courses

like they give a shit about their client's

767

:

outcomes because all that instructional

design background wasn't just for nothing.

768

:

When I decided to get out, took

a course and it was garbage and I

769

:

haven't talked to a single person

that didn't have that experience.

770

:

And I founded Katrina Mitchell Learning

Design and I am on a mission to fix that.

771

:

Lacey: Yes, preach.

772

:

Dr. Catrina Mitchum:

773

:

Yeah.

774

:

Lacey: That's why whenever we've

made courses in our joyful support

775

:

movements about home management, I

just need you guys to know that I

776

:

have different modalities on purpose.

777

:

it's actually structured in

a very specific way that we

778

:

thought about scaffolding.

779

:

There are activities to reinforce your,

you know, all these different things.

780

:

I'm not just gonna hand you a

PDF, or just a copy of a webinar.

781

:

this is not a course,

782

:

Dr. Catrina Mitchum:

783

:

don't get me started.

784

:

Lacey: so you're, you're

preaching to the choir here.

785

:

Dr. Catrina Mitchum:

786

:

Yes.

787

:

you can find me actively on LinkedIn.

788

:

am pretty sure I'm the only Katrina with a

C Mitchum on there, so that makes it easy.

789

:

Lacey: Yeah.

790

:

Dr. Catrina Mitchum:

791

:

and I have a YouTube channel.

792

:

Lacey: I didn't know that.

793

:

I'm gonna go look.

794

:

Yeah.

795

:

Awesome.

796

:

Well, thank you so much for

sharing the middle with me today.

797

:

It's always, it's one of those

things where it's great to talk to

798

:

somebody else who has chronic illness,

but it's also like, I'm sorry.

799

:

Dr. Catrina Mitchum:

800

:

yeah, totally.

801

:

And completely agree.

802

:

I'm glad I get to come on here.

803

:

And Lacey just knows we don't even

have the same chronic illness.

804

:

We don't

805

:

Lacey: No,

806

:

Dr. Catrina Mitchum:

807

:

we just

808

:

Lacey: no, it's just,

809

:

Dr. Catrina Mitchum:

810

:

to,

811

:

Lacey: Oh, thanks.

812

:

we're making life work, aren't we?

813

:

Awesome.

814

:

Well, thank you so much again for sharing.

815

:

Middle with me today.

816

:

Dr. Catrina Mitchum:

817

:

Thank you.

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About the Podcast

Show artwork for Sharing The Middle
Sharing The Middle
Sharing stories about the Messy Middles of Life

Listen for free

About your host

Profile picture for Lacey Tomlinson

Lacey Tomlinson

Lacey Tomlinson transforms life's messiest moments into meaningful connections. As a mother, entrepreneur, and chronic illness advocate, she founded the Joyful Support Movement after her own health journey forced her to rebuild her life authentically. Through podcasts, courses, and community building, Lacey helps others navigate their "messy middle" without shame or perfection, because she believes everyone deserves genuine support. Her philosophy? "Life's better when we stop pretending and just embrace the plot." With master's degrees in Communication and Instructional Design, she combines professional expertise with raw human experience to create spaces where vulnerability is celebrated, authentic stories are shared, and people find the support they need.